Template talk:Navbox/doc
|maxarchivesize = 70K |counter = 13 |minthreadsleft = 4 |algo = old(180d) |archive = Template talk:Navbox/Archive %(counter)d }} . There are only 20 rows available because the vast majority of navboxes have no need for more than 20 rows (only about 25 out of 55,000+ require it), and because additional rows add nontrivial server processing time to the template. Navboxes can be nested inside each other; if you need help correctly nesting them, feel free to ask. * The v'•'d•'e' links are produced by . If you have a question pertaining to them, it is probably best to ask at Template talk:Navbar. * If you are trying to copy to your local wiki, there are several other things that must be installed or copied over as well: ** ParserFunctions must be installed. Without it, you'll probably just see lots of stuff like must also be copied. There is a version ready for transwikiing at Wikipedia:WikiProject Transwiki/Template:Navbar. ** requires MediaWiki 1.15.0 (r46662) at minimum, due to the use of functionality. Trying to use a lower version will result in the display of stuff like view. ** Navbox uses several styles in MediaWiki:Common.css and the collapsible table code from MediaWiki:Common.js; these must also be copied. }} Change of color? I think the default background colors should be changed from blue to gray like , or maybe a teal color as per the page border colors of the vector skin. Thoughts? SharkD Talk 16:31, 3 December 2010 (UTC) :That's not teal, that's aqua. But I kinda like the current color. — Edokter • Talk • 16:41, 3 December 2010 (UTC) :This would be a large change, which should be advertised. That said, you should search the archives: A color change has been suggested before. --Izno (talk) 01:27, 4 December 2010 (UTC) ::New suggestions are never wrong. How about a gradient? — Edokter • Talk • 01:40, 4 December 2010 (UTC) :::Which is not to say that that is what I said? :^) As for a gradient, I shall say that I would need to get used to it in solo-form; I don't think it would be a good idea when there are multiple boxes, as the dark fades to light more-or-less in stripes. So I'd say I'd probably oppose such a change as that for the latter reason. --Izno (talk) 01:46, 4 December 2010 (UTC) raw html table tags to wiki table tags? How come this template uses the raw html tags? ~kotarou3 04:01, 15 January 2011 (UTC) :Ease of coding. Some parser function do not work when embedded in wikitables. — Edokter • Talk — 12:06, 15 January 2011 (UTC) Why is HTML tidy required? I ask because HTML tidy conflicts with FCK editor, which we use. So we have to switch it off, which implies you cannot use FCK editor & navboxes together! But when I switch off HTML tidy the navboxes look OK. --Robinson weijman (talk) 13:56, 21 January 2011 (UTC) :Perhaps this was true for an older version of MediaWiki? If navboxes do indeed work with Tidy disabled, we should revise the documentation. (But I cannot test it for myself.) — Edokter • Talk — 21:10, 21 January 2011 (UTC) :I can confirm that HTML tidy is not needed, at least, on version 1.16. The "fixed" version provided on the wikify project refuses to render right, copying the template wholesale from Template:Navbox works properly. And HTML tidy is NOT installed on my server. TheGreatTK (talk) 18:59, 21 June 2011 (UTC) Questions on Navbox with MediaWiki 1.16 I am running into an issue with the display of collapsible Navboxes that contain Groups in a local install on MediaWiki 1.16. In "Hide" mode navboxes look fine, however, once "show" is selected and the navbox expands, my header is shrunk to the width of the Group column. Above and below banners still show at 100% width. I have copied over all related Common.css and updated Navbox and Navbar templates. Has anyone encountered this before and can offer advice on a fix? Thank you for the help.--Jcantroot (talk) 17:18, 17 February 2011 (UTC) :Hmm, let's see. In order for Navbox to work you'll also need the template copied over, as well as parser functions enabled. I'm guessing you already have the parser functions in place, but make sure is there. If it's still not working let us know and we can give you some more help. --CapitalR (talk) 19:41, 17 February 2011 (UTC) I am having the same issue with a local install of MW 1.17, with Navbox, Navbar and ParserFunctions installed. I also copied Mediawiki:Common.css and Common.js from en.wikipedia. Only thing missing is HTMLtidy - could this be the reason of the strange behaviour? Thank you for help --Sal9000 (talk) 10:18, 21 February 2011 (UTC) :Yes, Navbar requires HTML Tidy. — Edokter (talk) — 12:02, 21 February 2011 (UTC) ::Thanks.. In fact, I've realized that the issue appears only when Navbar displays broken html. Do you know a good tutorial on how to install HTMLtidy on Ubuntu 10.04? I couldn't find much on the Web. Also, I wonder if HTMLtidy affects performance. This would be an issue, as I am running MW on a tiny Amazon EC2 instance and I am trying to optimize it in every possible way. Thank you for any help! --Sal9000 (talk) 10:23, 23 February 2011 (UTC) :::I'll have to refer you to the HTML Tidy homepage at http://tidy.sourceforge.net/. — Edokter (talk) — 11:50, 23 February 2011 (UTC) FIXED! Everything is rendered correctly now. I've decided to use the php extension htmltidy - it works just fine. To install it on Ubuntu 10.04 / PHP 5.2.14: sudo apt-get install -y php5-dev libtidy-dev svn co http://svn.php.net/repository/php/php- src/branches/PHP_5_2/ext/tidy/ cd tidy/ phpize ./configure make sudo make install cd ../ rm -rf tidy/ Add extension=tidy.so to php.ini; set $wgUseTidy=true in LocalSettings.php; restart apache... Enjoy! --Sal9000 (talk) 20:25, 24 February 2011 (UTC) Async I think if load content async better Great Han (talk) 12:05, 23 March 2011 (UTC) Navbox populated from Category I'm trying to create a Navbox template that will derive its link content from a category, so that the Navbox does not need to be manually edited each time a page is added to or removed from the category. Obviously I'm not the first to have thought of this, but I have failed to find any help or instructions for achieving it. Can anyone point me to simple instructions? Or even offer advice? My failed attempt is at Template:Horse breeds of Italy; I want it to look something like Template:Spanish horses, with the links on a few lines and separated by bullets. Presumably I'm getting the data from the category in the wrong way? Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 05:57, 28 March 2011 (UTC) :I doubt that this is possible - as far as I know the "categorytree" function always returns the items as a vertical list. Maybe there's some clever trickery to be done with CSS (or even a parameter for categorytree) - you could try asking at the technical village pump, but I suspect there won't be a solution.--Kotniski (talk) 06:56, 28 March 2011 (UTC) ::This could be done with css I think, using a declaration of the sort (I don't think this exactly/alone will work) table.navbox td div div.CategoryTreeTag div.CategoryTreeItem { display: inline }. That said, to see this globally, you would need consensus, and I don't think you would be able to find that. ::On a side note, the html that CategoryTree renders is horrendous. The use of divs and spans as opposed to uls and lis is appalling. --Izno (talk) 17:41, 28 March 2011 (UTC) PS: Not as appalling as the html generated by navbox though! :^) Transwiki Navbox Hey, I am trying to transwiki the Navbox to my wiki. I have copied over the Common.css and the Common.js as well as the Transwiki versions of TL:Navbox and TL:Navbar. I have also installed parser functions. However, as you can see here, the collapse link won't show up. Any suggestions?-- (talk) 18:23, 12 April 2011 (UTC) Styling Is there a compelling reason to allow users to add their own styling to a Navbox because Template:Phantom of the Opera and the boxes on Giovanni_Trapattoni are compelling reasing to remove these options Gnevin (talk) 00:15, 16 April 2011 (UTC) :Own styling shouldn't be allowed, but good luck getting consensus on that. Every sports project loves them colors. :| --Izno (talk) 03:37, 16 April 2011 (UTC) ::Owe is it one of those issues Gnevin (talk) 18:43, 20 April 2011 (UTC) :::Uh huh. :| --Izno (talk) 22:26, 20 April 2011 (UTC) :There is no compelling reason not to allow styling. It has ligitimate uses. Just because some editors abuse it, doesn't mean it should be disabled for the rest. — Edokter (talk) — 22:31, 20 April 2011 (UTC) ::You have any examples of these uses? Gnevin (talk) 13:50, 21 April 2011 (UTC) Semantic and accesssible list markup Many thousands of Wikipedia articles have navboxes, in which lists of links are presented, horizontally, without using list mark-up, but instead using or suchlike as a kludge. This is semantically poor and has implications for accessibility; not least as every is read out as the word "bullet", to blind people using screen-readers. To remedy that, a group of editors have collaborated to add to Common.css a class called hlist to which is now used by . Here's a sample edit, adding it to a navbox. The visual output should be the same in all modern browsers; this has been widely tested. The question now, is how best to apply the class to navboxes across Wikipedia? A bot job, obviously, but using , or some other mechanism? And are there any issues we should be aware of first? can be used with ordinary (UL) or ordered (OL) lists. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; 18:37, 22 April 2011 (UTC) :On IE8 (at least), this does not look good. The bullet is immediately adjacent to the right-most word instead of centered between list elements. I would not want to see this deployed without aesthetic improvements first. — Andrwsc (talk ·''' ) 18:53, 22 April 2011 (UTC) ::Odd. Looks good on my IE8, with the exception of a bullet added after te last item. — Edokter (talk) — 19:01, 22 April 2011 (UTC) :::Specific CSS issues are best discussed at MediaWiki Talk:Common.css#Horizontal lists. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; 19:05, 22 April 2011 (UTC) :::…which you are doing, of course. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; 19:24, 22 April 2011 (UTC) ::You may need to do a hard refresh/ clear your cache. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; 19:05, 22 April 2011 (UTC) :::Tried that, no effect. I have no custom css etc., just the vanilla wikipedia browsing experience. I see the same effects when I log off. — Andrwsc (talk '''· ) 19:07, 22 April 2011 (UTC) ::::Get a proper browser ;-) Seriously, I've just tried IE8, and don't see that spacing problem. Can you try zooming in and out, please, and see if that makes a difference. Again, MediaWiki Talk:Common.css#Horizontal lists is the best place to continue this. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; 19:24, 22 April 2011 (UTC) See also two related deletion debates. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; 19:10, 22 April 2011 (UTC) Just wondering if it would be worth adding a parameter to the navbox template to allow for an option of making all the lists use the hlist class. -- WOSlinker (talk) 20:22, 22 April 2011 (UTC) For example: :It may not need the parameter... How many navboxes do you see that have (vertical) bulleted lists? Just assign the "hlist nomargin" classes to the list cells. — Edokter (talk) — 20:27, 22 April 2011 (UTC) ::Template:Navbox with columns comes to mind as a place where vertical lists might be (more properly) used. On another note, I support this general change. --Izno (talk) 21:24, 22 April 2011 (UTC) :::Hadn't thought of that. Shouldn't be hard to filter out. — Edokter (talk) — 22:59, 22 April 2011 (UTC) ---- How can we move this forward? Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; 21:56, 27 April 2011 (UTC) :We'll get to it. Currently investigating for use of bulleted lists. — Edokter (talk) — 00:52, 29 April 2011 (UTC) Any news? Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; 14:13, 17 May 2011 (UTC) Usage of "Show/Hide" Outside Navbox Context Sorry if I'm posting this in the wrong place, but I'd like to use the show/hide feature of the navbox in another context...I want to have a description of an item in a table that's hidden by default and can be revealed by clicking "show." Jmajeremy (talk) 01:04, 25 May 2011 (UTC) :I'd think the easy way would be to use the navbox template directly? I'm curious as to what the context is, though. → [[User:Roux|'ROUX']] [[User talk:Roux|'₪']] 01:06, 25 May 2011 (UTC) ::Here's what I've come up with so far. Not sure if it's "kosher" wikicode, though... :: ::--Jmajeremy (talk) 03:03, 25 May 2011 (UTC) :::If it works, it's kosher. I'm still trying to understand under what circumstances this would be useful though. What is the purpose of this? → [[User:Roux|'ROUX']] [[User talk:Roux|'₪']] 03:12, 25 May 2011 (UTC) :Basically, you can use the show/hide feature on any table by giving it the "collapsible" class. The show/hide link will appear in the first table header. — Edokter (talk) — 13:31, 25 May 2011 (UTC) Proposal to remove the styling options As above, I see no reason to keep these options . Wiki doesn't allow projects and users to style articles, we don't let users decide that alternation paragraphs on Manchester United are going to be red and white. Nor do we allow users to define the font type or in vast majority of cases the size. Only in templates is this allowed . WP:COLOUR outlines a number of issues with certain colour combinations, template such as Template:Phantom_of_the_Opera and Sons of Anarchy are unreadable to my eyes, while Giovanni_Trapattoni is a multi coloured mess. I can't think of a reason to keep this option other that WP:ILIKEIT Gnevin (talk) 16:00, 16 June 2011 (UTC) :I've never used these options, but I see no reason to remove them. If particular templates have issues, address them there. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:22, 16 June 2011 (UTC) *'Oppose'. Just because something can be abused does not mean we should remove it alltogether. Styling is also used to adjust margins and padding in certain cases, especially since this is a meta-template. Removing it would break hundreds of navboxes that do not even use colors. — Edokter (talk) — 17:10, 16 June 2011 (UTC) *'Oppose' - discreet/subtle styling is useful for linking together thematically-related navboxes, providing clues as to their contents. I agree that many are horrifying eyesores, but let's keep the baby when we drain the tub, shall we? → [[User:Roux|'ROUX']] [[User talk:Roux|'₪']] 17:36, 16 June 2011 (UTC) *'Oppose' No, people shouldn't be using horrid color combinations in navboxes, but we should not be removing the styling options altogether. Navboxes are used for much more than just articles, and more flexibility should be allowed for projectspace or userspace navboxes. Instead, we should be add to WP:COLOR certain instances when navbox styling is appropriate and not appropriate (e.g., things like padding fixes should be fine, and colors shouldn't be used carelessly). But for many cases, colors are useful for identification. We also have some color elements in infoboxes—perhaps we could standardize things and match them up by subject area? /ƒETCHCOMMS ' 18:11, 16 June 2011 (UTC) *'Oppose — Fix abuses as needed but don't remove the features. Before styling was added, editors were using all sorts of horrible hacks to style elements. Perhaps add a class so someone who hates the colors can remove them in personal CSS. -''— Gadget850 (Ed) ''''talk'' 18:19, 16 June 2011 (UTC) *'Oppose' - Tail wagging the dog. If you are having difficulty with specific stylized templates that expand from this, then raise your concern with them. Otherwise please collect a affirmative response from every usage of this template acknowledging that they're Ok with the removal of the stylizing options. When you are attempting to take some flexibility away from users you really should get consent from everyone as people expect software to work the same unless they've been notified prior to usage about it. Hasteur (talk) 18:43, 16 June 2011 (UTC) *'Support the core idea' but oppose the methodology. I completely agree that we need to do something about the massive wp:deviations just for the sake of "I like it" and "it looks pretty". However, as has been pointed out above, there these style fields are used for more than just colouring. We should create a task force to try to remove the superfluous deviations in colouring, but, this is something which cannot be simply addressed at the level of this template. Frietjes (talk) 23:23, 16 June 2011 (UTC) ::I've only ever seen the style used for colouring , can you give some examples of the other behavour it addresses Gnevin (talk) 23:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC) *'Comment' I'd challenge those above to show me a case where the use of the style para has led you to say wow this really improves the project. This isn't about indivual cases I don't like, even perfectly good templates when combined can look terrible and present access issues. This para should improve the project, it doesn't Gnevin (talk) 23:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC) **That's twisting the point. The style parameter doesn't have to make me say "wow". Without it, I would say "ew" if messy margins or widths ensued. Again, I think you're focusing on the wrong thing here: the problem is not the parameter's existence. It is people misusing the parameter or making poor choices with what they put in it. So you should instead be formulating a clear guideline for what is appropriate usage of the parameter. /ƒETCHCOMMS ' 19:53, 17 June 2011 (UTC) *'Oppose - Trying to button things down past a certain point leads to stultifying conformity and blandness. Some deviation should be seen as a positive value. It provides wriggle room around the edges for some creativity and diversity; perhaps even a little colour. Wikipedia already has very bland and uninteresting default formats. Take this further and Wikipedia will start looking like something out of an apparatchik's dream (nightmare?). --Epipelagic (talk) 02:02, 17 June 2011 (UTC) *'Oppose' - While I also prefer standardized colors and styles, I must agree with Edokter that the styling parameters are often used for things other than color, such as width and padding. Removing them would break many hundreds or thousands of templates. --CapitalR (talk) 09:41, 17 June 2011 (UTC) *'Oppose' per Roux. Unusually, it appears to be snowing in June.—[[User:S Marshall|'S Marshall']] T/ 11:01, 17 June 2011 (UTC) *'Support the idea' Remove the ability for gaudy color choices and implement a non-gaudy color palette throughout, removing the instances of the horrendous color combinations as demonstrated above. The problem with Fix abuses as needed but don't remove the features. '' is that there are so many instances of the abuse, particularly on sports pages. Perhaps create a task force to remove the superfluous deviations in coloring as suggested above. --Bob (talk) 22:41, 17 June 2011 (UTC) *'Comment''' This parameter is being used for more than colouring as as such removing isn't a realistic option. However I'm still interested in working with those who agreed that this needs to be fixed Gnevin (talk) 00:23, 19 June 2011 (UTC) *'Oppose' based on everything said in opposition to this proposal, above. — V = IR (Talk •  ) 05:58, 19 June 2011 (UTC) *'Oppose' Colorization is quite useful for identification purposes. If a particular navbox's color scheme is horrible, then fix that navbox. --Cybercobra (talk) 22:40, 19 June 2011 (UTC) *'Oppose' per SarekOfVulcan. And I like the Idea of Gadget850 to add a class so someone who hates the colors can remove them in personal CSS [[User:Reo On|'R'eo]] + 13:55, 20 June 2011 (UTC) :This isn't about people hating colours. Its about improving the project Gnevin (talk) 00:04, 22 June 2011 (UTC) *'Oppose' while conceding that the Giovanni Trapattoni managerial positions is jarring when opened. I guess I'm one of those sports people that loves them colors, but when I open the championships etc navbox on Diana Taurasi, the colors are a useful guide. Anyone who follows the sport will recognize the National Flag Blue associated with UConn, will recognize the team colors of the Phoenix Mercury, and the red of Spartak Moscow. It may come across as garish to someone who doesn't follow the sport, but most will make sense to people likely to look at it. As an aside, I have a personal rule to create a collapsed navbox whenever the number reaches five, partly to keep potential garishness to a reasonable level.--SPhilbrickT 20:36, 24 June 2011 (UTC) *'Oppose' if Giovanni Trapattoni is the problem, fix Giovanni Trapattoni, don't try to disable the whole machine because of a few excesses. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 23:29, 24 June 2011 (UTC) *'Oppose' - Per SOV and Fetchcomms, also wouldn't this mess up thousands of pages with the template ? [[User:Mlpearc|'Mlpearc']] [[User_talk:Mlpearc|'powwow']] 23:43, 24 June 2011 (UTC) Suggested guidelines Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_(text_formatting)#Colour I've suggested some guidelines, opinions welcome Gnevin (talk) 00:27, 22 June 2011 (UTC) Not working despite instructions I'm in the process of setting up a 1.16 wiki and am trying to copy some of these templates over. I've installed ParserFunctions as well as the provided common.js and common.css (which I know work due to some other templates). Also, I'm using the modified transwiki version which shouldn't require html tidy. I cannot for the life of me get Navbox to work right. Viewed on my wiki, it appears as: { | class="navbox" cellspacing="0" style=";" |- | style="padding:2px;" | { | cellspacing="0" class="nowraplinks " style="width:100%;background:transparent;color:inherit;;" |}